about the point system, and the guild... no offense to anyone, just what i seen lately

ok.. since hattori locked the post he made about the new point system...it sucks, no offense. i seen DKP in WoW before, and i tell u, it made guilds fall apart, and it became too complicated... that if wasnt for addons.. it would been harder...

so no offense to anyone from this post i am making, but this guild sure done a 180 since TL had to go afk awhile. and i dont mean for the best.

yes, i do know that someone needs to step in when torian isnt online but since he went off for a bit...i seen many changes happen. this isnt a hate post. i just want to know whats going on with the guild. what its direction is. and is TL still the leader... i know that he is, but i meant for the main decisions of the guild stuff that happened of late.

imnot accusing u of talking to no one, idk if torian was on or not to agree to it or dicuss, and idk who else is council that can decide them decisions, neither do i know who all approved of it or who declined it and was online at the time, but the DKP is news to me.

i know i been busy past few months, and ya i rarely can play, but Life is Life... but i still thikn i should have a say in all this too... when i joined we had lots of people in guild, mages and warriors, 1 person to 1 account ratio. last dragon raid for 2 niths, it took us a hour just to get off blue level, we had 3 people on follow, and least 2 of them, judas and bludlust, were only half there toheal. then spent another hour on gold lvl. ya spawn boost came on soon as we got near end of gold level but it still shouldnt take that long to get off gold level.

if its so u can get double points or double loot, idk., but it be more helpful if we had mages that can watch the screen and play it 100% of time, and same for the warriors... otherwise we get too disttracted and everyone dies on the simple levels. and all u do is get your alts gear badly damaged, i seen bludlust die a few times cause he wasnt watching screen. that means damaged gear that cant be replaced cause u got no more points, and it hits 0 durability and dies.

and guild vaults seems to be a issue to. torian had a deal to keep 20 or so pies at the guild hall open public for people who need it.... if need that small amount in a soldier or officer rank vault instead, let me know.... or keep a note to remind people somewhere, of waht is avilable to them like a updated post with counts. such as pies and stuff. so if u dont see pies out for people, pls put just 10 then in the open bank... if pie maker needs to, they got no problem makng a few more. 20 of each is n othing to them.

a guild that we dont gear, is a guild that goes to hunt without supplies they need such as totems and pies, stuff that should be free for all.

that is all for now.

Ray Rayxx

alright mate, the numbers in the guild have went down is because either people have been gone for so long witout giving us any reasons why, people are being booted or there just leaving because there to greedy for the guild. and its always been that we dont want people like this. why? because there only in it for themselfs.

honestly for the dkp system. im kinda on both sides for this. i do agree for such a small guild this will cause problems. and not everyone can hunt dragons. but on the other hand there is people there that get loot for doing nothing, people that keep scales in there own banks, i didnt agree last week wit some one getting 2 very good drops while other people missed out? were's the fairness in that? esp for some one i dont see online much nor handing in scales.

On the other hand ray wat bout the people that dont hunt dragons but supply the guild with other needs? making pots pies. etc? thats are time getting put into something that ur all gonna use for dragon hunts? weres are loot?. i remember a few months ago making tons of pots bandages etc? and this was the time wen stony and aribeth were in guild? was i fought off wen u guys were rolling for drops mate?. and i do no if i need something all i gotta do is ask for it. what bout jim who lives in the uk but goes to bed early at nights for work?

and the guild vaults atm mate? i dont see any problems wit them? it isnt hard to make pies. i dont see why people cant sit out for 5 mins a day and do a bit of mixing it isnt hard. its just being lazy if people dont do it.

Im not out to annoy anymore mate im just trying to put a few points across

First of all Ray and any others who dont like the system .. like you said im not trying to offend you or anyone else but when was the last time you got on and farmed any scales or turned any in? Nothing personal but im tired of grinding for hours as well as certain few others and we get shafted for the loot when someone decides they dont want to farm but they sure are willing to go kill bosses and roll for drops. As for you question about TL, me and him spoke about a points system long ago and he agreed with me at the time. Was he on to help me in forming this point system .. no hes been gone a while and if you read the forums while hes gone me and Shez are in charge. The post was locked because i wasnt asking for opinions. Shez hasnt been on lately ... and MANY others havent been. So my point being if you want to have an opinion be here more often. The guild hasnt taken a dive because TL isnt here.. the guild is taking a dive because its members arent here. If more people were on to play then we'd have more people to farm scales and it would be more fairly spread out. But theres not so 5 people in the guild are farming scales while EVERYONE else wants to get the loot. I'm sorry for them. As for the pies and any other items that you feel should be "free" to all, i disagree. why should Mick or anyone else constantly have to farm the material necessary to make potions totems and pies for everyone to use when not everyone is bringing him or the guild materials. The guild has always been like this - you take something out - you put something in. Correct me if im wrong Ray but arent you a Zule build as well? Have you done your Mukk quest yet? Cause thats where Zule builds best gear comes from. If you havent done the quest or arent attempting to do it then why should someone else go kill him so you can have the drops? It works the same way with Dragons... Really the only ones who should be offended by the DKP system are those who dont participate in farming the scales and want a free ride. As for Mick's comment about those who do other stuff for the guildand where there drops are... Mick i understand what you are saying i fully do trust me when i say you are one of the most important members of the team. But have i not on may occasions givin you all kinds of gear? Not asked for payment just given it up becasue i know you need it? Why, because you deserve it! But that has nothing to do with dragons or there drops bro. I dont had high level gear out to just anyone and theres a reason for that. If i dont think you will use it to its full potential then ill keep it for myself. I dare anyone to tell me im a liar.I dont know what else to say to sum it all up.. if you want to be part of an active guild... be active. If you want benefits ... give benefits... if you want dragon gear ...farm dragons .... if you want hand outs try the Red Cross.Oh and one more thing on the note of your comment about Blud and Judas ... me and Brownstone run two accounts two computers to HELP the guild because we dotn have enough people to do the raids without. We pay for those accounts so yeah they will get points as well. If you dont like it step up and fill there shoes. Because honestly its more a hassle than anything and as for my gear getting busted.. dont worry about it it's MY gear to do with what i want.

ya, it is your characters, your gear, but others could of gotten that gear too and not let it go poof... but on top of that... ya i appreciate the effort, but most times on even green level, it wasnt just you dying... we almost had a full wipe... at the portal..for how many healers we had and warriors it should of goen differently... wasnt just ur gear but everyones that was losing health fast. soon as i res shez i died, vice versa, and same with others.

the pies, isnt made by mick, that i know of... i know of someone else who makes them, and having a few pies of each out in open isnt going to hurt.

TL hasnt been on, but u said all council members agreed on it... but seems like was just u and torian that talked and agreed on some parts of it.. but u wait til he isnt online for long time to bring it about... it used to be just a, if u deserved it then u get it and not need to earn points for it. now people wont want to roll on anything afraid to lose all thier points and u have to give the gear away to them just to make sure they are geared.

and most the gear i got, i paid for. ya i used to hunt dragons with u guys more than anything, but real life has come up in past couple months and i just cant get on hardly at all but i think we need more invites sent out instead of trying to work double.

and for your information, ya, i done mukk quest like 2 years ago if not longer... or whenever soc came out. and my question is, how about those who been in guild for so long hunting dragons til they puke... do they get points? or everyone start fresh? all drops they got before point system wether it be hotag, super elite, this, that...do they start fresh? shuld be a all or nothing for those of past raids or else it be unfair for them too.

and i noticed guild list got shorter by a lot.... lot of them people had good reasons to be gone, or been in guild since day 1... if they been gone for months.. not trying to be harsh here.. but if they been gone for months... would half a week later til TL came back have hurt that much, to see if any ofthem should be kicked or not?

ya and i know i havent been on, so i prolly got 'no business knowing' whats happening and why, but still... seems like a lot more changed in past 2 weeks than it has in past half year

well for starters mate the gear 2 there alts have gotten have been handed down by there lvl 110's. so i dont think its anyone business what they do, as for other people could off gotten that gear? i believe there both 105? dragon loot starts at 106, there for aint gotten any gear from dragon bosses. The reason we wiped on green lvl is because people were to slow to move forward or just acting stupid pulling. ya no could have 10 healers there but 4-5 people stand round a dragon that zerks hard isnt helping healers. spawn boost on green level isnt easy.

I dont make pies mate? half the finish products in those vaults mate are done by me, yes i get the mats from people like jim and aran and im very greatful for that. but its me who sits there and makes totems. potions, and before totems and potions are made theres the process of making crystals, and witout 100 runecrafting that could take a long time, do apoligise xant makes the totems as well. those pies in council vault aint been topped up since i been bk and that was 4 weeks ago. pies i been making are sitting in a crate in my own personal bank. and from now on wen i donate stuff to guild im gonna make sure its seen, im gonna be posting it on forums for everyone to see.

Tl aint been on mate so u expect everyone to sit around and not make choices? whats the difference between TL removing people and ED accompanied by 2 other members wen he was doing it 1 of them being a gerenal? why have the guild looking dirty wit people that aint been on in months? im sure when the people get back online theres an invite waiting for them. all they gotta do is ask.

As for gear, Ed like i said in my last post mate i no if i need anything ill get it and all ill have to do is ask for it. very greatful for the gear u guys have giving me to either help me lvl skills or just for fighting.

Brett is aware that we have cleaned the guild up, did you no this ray? i think what your trying to say is run everything past TL b4 we act on it? Brett aint been here in 4 weeks, so i think its the gerenals choices on what to do. if thats not the case then why are we generals? is there a point in having them if the choices are all down to 1 man. No i dont think so and thats why certain people have been put in charge.

I dont want this to offend anyone or anyone to see this as an arguement, but if somethings addressed im gonna answer it. simple as.

doesnt matter to me which way we go but it is unfair for 1 person to be able to roll on drops if they are not farming or for someone to get multiple drops when someone like mike contributes hundreds of scales and gets nothing as far as judasa is concerned i dont need any gear for him i hand all my gear down from brown or make my own when his tme comes at 110 i will hand all my eeo gear to him thats why i went dex mage alls i am asking is for more people to farm scales i will take mages up anytime the only reason i mae judas was because i couldnt get anyone to hunt with me this way i can farm more for guild and i have donated almost every drop i get that i cant use to someone else in the guild at no cost so please help farm and there will be no issues judas pts dont matter and brown only needs e gear ty

dont have much time today to speak, but am going to say least 2 things... 1, about the pies, if u made some, thank you then, but just, i know TL had a agreement with someone else as well to make pies for the guild whenever they are needed and i know that erson put a lot in also.

and far as the booting thing...lot of people was kicked... some had reasons like being in a car accident and cant get on atm, some who only played when that one general wasnt on, cause he players later in night and frequently on and some, that TL had since day one, like dark arrow or something like that, that he said would never ever be kicked. so u can imagine thier surprises when they pop on, and they arent there anymore. all im saying is.. if they been afk for a month, they can wait til least more than 1 generals are on and not afk for decisions, incase someone knows more about them... or if they got a valid reason to be offline. and all that began cause sandro left... so we lose a member we kick 20

Quote {Subject: New point system Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:25 pm

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I have spoke to council and we have come to the following agreement. Turn ALL scales into a council member ASAP to have them confirm/add your points.

Points for DRAGON SCALES will be awarded as follows:

Blue scales are worth 1/4 of a point each.

Blue PRISTINE scales are worth 10 points each.

Gold Scales = 1 point each

Red Scales = 1 point each

Green Scales = 2 Points each



PARTY POINTS


Points will be awarded to all members of WoTA parties that participated in that hunt. We will be using the averages formula to designate points for party based hunts. For example : 4 member party turns in a total of 20 scales. 5 red 5 gold 5 green 5 blue = 21.25 pts./4 members = 5.3 points earned each regardless of how many landed in who evers back pack. The ONLY EXCEPTION to this rule will be BLUE PRISTINES. If your party turns in a BLUE PRISTINE each member of that party will be awarded the FULL 10 points EACH! This system was put into place for several reasons : 1) To promote group hunting. 2) To allow members to see there standing in the guild when it comes to drops/loot from Dragons. 3) To promote more people hunting at Anby! Blue pristines are the most important scale and will be treated as such. Please be sure to keep a record of who was in your party to keep the TPT system accurate and fair. Turn that list of names in to council/generals with your scales.


BIDDING FOR ITEMS!


Bidding for items will go as follows:

Certain items will be marked under certain headings and you will need to fit certain criteria and have a minimal amount of points to bid on these items. When you bid points on an item those points will be deducted from your total ONLY if you win the roll. If you win the roll the points will be deducted from your total point tally. Level 110 gear will have other stipulations. If you win a roll for 110 gear/Elite weapon those points will be deducted from your TPT and it will exclude you from rolling on another 110 item/elite weapon for that rolling session. So choose wisely on the items for which you bid. A list of TPT's/winners will be kept by council/generals. Rolling sessions will be announced open and closed by guild leaders only! Hopefully we will be able to post ahead of time when a rolling session will be scheduled so that members who are not present at the time can make an appearance/bid/roll.


YOU MUST BE A FULL MEMBER OF WoTA TO BE CONSIDERED AT ALL


Level 110 items : You will need to fit the build/level requirement for any level 110 item ,if you already have the item being bid upon you will be excluded from the roll, if everyone has the item or no one can use the item, the item will be saved in the council vault and its fate will be decided by the council members.

Elite Weapons: Certain weapons will be labeled "Elite". Those weapons included are RCB, AQS, MoS, IH, Agon, SBoSD!

Ultra Elite Weapons/items: SoTT, HoTAG, BoTS
Those weapons are so hard to come by that only very few members in WoTA have any of those. Although the list for those weapons is short... That list will be filled before any others are considered. If that offends some people I am truely sorry but there are some very long standing members of WoTA who have not aquired these items in the 2 years WoTA has been established. A list of these players by order and the weapon they are attempting to aquire will be posted. Please be aware that council and guild leaders are the ones who decide this list. (This list is tentative)

All other Dragon drops: Again you will have to fit the level/build requirements for these items as well as enough points to bid. But there will be no "stop roll" for these items. So you may spend as many points on these items per session as you can afford so long as you have a char that can use them meeting the requirements....


Please remember that this TPT system is new and adjustments may be made in the future according to the opinions of council/leaders.Be aware that in the furture other items may be added to the list(s) including drops from other bosses such as Mukk, Vint, Tserth, ect. Please try to enjoy the game and happy hunting. }

REPLY the system sounds good..but totally stinks. Cause see ok so I have hundreds of points I would like to spend but being 110 and I win a roll I am stopped from the next items..Now wait didn't I turn in my scale and earn my points to spend as I choose whenever aslong as i don't have the item at question..or even if I have it maybe I wanna give it to a friend if i win..or somebody i feel deservse it that doesn't have the amount of points earned to roll for it..(as a guildmate and a oldtimer to this game..THAT SHOULD BE MY OPTION not yours to choose for me) I mean we do have an outside world that people work everyday to pay for an account to play the game that they can' t get a decent peice of gear for cause they are busy outside game...I mean U are making an outside the game life a Crime in game so it seems...

Quote{no hes been gone a while and if you read the forums while hes gone me and Shez are in charge. The post was locked because i wasnt asking for opinions. Shez hasnt been on lately ... and MANY others havent been. So my point being if you want to have an opinion be here more often. The guild hasnt taken a dive because TL isnt here.. the guild is taking a dive because its members }

REPLY Can we say POWER HUNGRY..to throw that up in people faces is just wrong and not acceptable to anybody. He gave u power for the reason he thinks he can trust u to make the right decisions..not to use it to bully people around.And the whole taking a Dive cause of the members is wrong also..it is do to poor leadership from whoever is claiming to take charge. Just cause u have the power to make decisions doesn't make u are right all the time..we as guildmates also should have a voice that should be heard..cause wthout a guild WHAT POWER DO U HAVE???

Quote {Oh and one more thing on the note of your comment about Blud and Judas ... me and Brownstone run two accounts two computers to HELP the guild because we dotn have enough people to do the raids without. We pay for those accounts so yeah they will get points as well.}


REPLY OK so let me get this straight so u run 2 chars for dragons and yes i understand that and trust me I know it is a headache to do so...but for people that have outside lives..and can't farm all the time but have farmed will be punished..I know u stated that there will be a list and such forth and stuff like that..but wat makes u anybody special to get 2 amount of points..double that chances at rolls and such.. if somebody else can say "only farm a weekend" and turn in say so many scales and be penalized cause something he may need comes up and not enough points he lose's out..he pays for his account just the same as u do...and if he has a family sure he would like to spend sometime wth them not living on a game that he has payed his hard earned money on and being penalized..

So i would suggest that b4 u post and actually carry through wth this so called point system u ask yourself 1 question..HOW FASTCAN I KILL THIS GUILD? Cause that is wat u are going to do if u stick by it...

OK and now b4 u think to yourself I have nowhere to speak on this situation or such..I have been around along time and seen many guilds fall to POWER being abused or thrown around. And I can admit I have at 1 time had this power and thought I was doing right by forcing the hands of others..trust me it doesn't work out well. So like I said think about everything at stake b4 u try forcing or brushing off the people that u have the power over...their voices do matter cause without them u have no power..

What ever.. i give up.

iam gonna go kill dragons on my own because that is the only option i have.

i do my all to get online when u are hunting and raids. but ever can hit the time or when iam online no1 will go with me.

any scales i get i put in value as i always have everseens i enter to help TL out when wota wasnt going so well.
at that time i also emptyed my own personal bank to fil up wota GH and i mein everything i had of materials or other kind of stuff. all i do is for the guilde.

Now i dont want any kind of sry we didnt know or anything of that kind.

i have always liked and cared for TL (as friend) because of what we both have en commein. (think he feels the same way)


1 thing i dont think we should change about is for those ppl who are giving it all " to make materials for hunt or whatever it might be". dont get put a side just because they uphold the guilde from behind the tables.

i belive we should be very carefull we dont kill the guilde without wanting to do that. if u get my point.

just what i wanted to say. and ofc if u know me. not to accuse any1.

speed

All im gonna say is this ... Speed theres alot more goin on than you even know a little about, im sorry if you feel left out but you arent on or at least if you are you arent when i am. Secondly I NEVER ONCE made any decisions about this guild without consulting at least one other General or co leader. The guild clean up was just a routine clean -up sorry if some people dont play when i play and i didnt know there names .. (sounds like someone is whispering behind my back in the shadows again) but they are welcome to rejoin all they have to do is ask what happened and it'll all be explained. In any case I had one other General Present as well as a soldier there to volunteer any information on any and all VIA Ventrillo chat just for yer info. again if you are so eager to make suffestions by all means start using the forum if you arent able to log on all the time, or when others are logged in ... at least then we'll know your are active. As for the Dragon scale point system... Speed if you read that carefully you would understand that i am actually agreeing with you . You are a contributor and i know you hunt dragons alot .. so you really dont havea reason for beef. Im sorry we arent on line together more often. If we were you'd definatly be in the party. But because you hunt dragons ... often times when not many others around. When you turn them in you will now have a ecord of that .. benefitting you. As for people being afraid to lose there points? I think there are some things you may be misunderstanding. For one, why would someone be affraid to bid on something? If they lose the roll they don't lose any points... If they win then its time to give someone else a fair chance at getting the item? How is that unfair? Some of the things you guys said didnt even make sense becasue you both viciously,brutally agreed with me and apparently didn't realize it? I'm sorry but if you guys wanna have a eal conversation about this then stop posting "begrudging" posts on the forums and log in for a little bit and chat with the guild . I'm on most nights after 6 PM est. As for the pies and such guys?! First of all don't take this the wrong way but I have mostly no part of the restocking of the guild hall. I am a hunter thats why Torian named me Master of the Hunt as well as one of his co leaders. We have people in charge of restocking those vaults but I'll pay more attention to that if you'd like me too. As for this secret pie maker.. I know all about it and i know that person puts forth a tremendous effort whether thay have or havent lately I honestly couldnt tell you but i can tell you this... Its a shame i have to have all these people contact me by hate post on the forums because they couldnt put in an opinion in game. Anyway ill be loggin in now .. any questions dont hesitate to ask.. if i dont know i'll do my best to find out for you.Oh and by the way we booted somewhere near 25 -30 people becasue they havent been on in a while and i gotta say yer post about people not being on becasue they were in an accident... first let me say that comment genuinely hurt ... because I didnt know anything about that till after it happened. Thats because the other person that knew never bothered to tell me and there was never a post on the forums that i know about. Sorry but they are more than welcome to rejoin as soon as they are up to loggin in. What can i say im not a mind reader. Thats all for now..... hope to see you in game